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Being Recruited by Quixtar
March 15th, 2007 by Matt HugginsIf you're new here, you may want to subscribe to my RSS feed. Thanks for visiting!
About two to three weeks ago, I was browsing through the marketing books at Borders. While I was doing so, a guy who looked to be about the same age as me asked what I was looking at. Thinking it was his friendly way of saying hello, I gave a fairly simple response. He was genuinely intrigued, and continued the conversation with me about what I do for a living and small-talk related to the books I was looking at.
After about 5-10 minutes of chit chat, he introduced himself as James, and he ended up explaining that he’s in a business with his parents related to marketing, and he thought I had a great personality and would do well at it. He decided to give me his card (including the business website address and a simple password required to log into the site), and since I don’t have a job at the moment anyway, I thought I’d share my phone number and email address with him since he asked. We left on a note that he would be in touch with me.
The name of the website on his card is Kavanagh Associates. The site itself looks professional, but the lack of information completely available to people who would just be visiting the website on their own (those without the password listed on the business card I received) left me curious and hesitant about what this job really was.
Within several days, I got a call from him, and he asked if I would be able to meet up with him at McDonald’s to talk about the business thing further. I thought McDonald’s seemed like a weird place to meet, and the choice of location combined with the look of the website left me with the impression that it would be some type of “pryamid scheme” or multi-level marketing opportunity that he might be trying to sell me. Regardless, I agreed to meet him earlier this week since I have nothing else to do and wouldn’t mind hearing about a potential job opportunity.
I didn’t wear anything special when I went to McDonald’s; just jeans and a poker t-shirt that read, “Nice hand sir. And by hand I mean catch. I by sir I mean moron.” (I thought it was a classy choice myself.) Furthermore, I had the remnants of a rub-on tattoo on my forearm from going to a beer fest in Atlantic City with my brother the day prior.
As I got into the McDonald’s, I saw James sitting with a woman who I presumed to be his mother. Both were dressed up: James in black pants, a white button down shirt, and a tie; and his mother wearing a nice sweater. I shook their hands and was formally introduced to his mother, at which time his dad approached from the counter where he was ordering a drink. He too was dressed in the same style of attire as James, and I apologized for my appearance.
As I was only expecting to meet James, I was a bit caught off guard, though not really intimidated or anything. We began talking, with James’ dad running the show. He immediately led into what I considered to be a pretty good pitch, despite the fact that he stated his background is in IT throughout the past 30 or so years. He drew diagrams, explained passive versus active income, (which I already understood), and generally tried to compel me to believe the opportunity is great.
Eventually, he started talking about how people may think it is a scam, alluding to pyramids that people think it is. He explained how it is not, though, in an effort to alleviate my concerns. Basically, he was telling me to not believe everything I read online since there are always people who have concerns with things in life. I agree that this is true, despite the fact that I’m still not convinced either way about the business.
It was made clear that I’ll have to spend $130 to get started. He emphasized that even if I don’t make a sale, it’s worth joining because the savings I can personally have on standard household items is above and beyond the $130 I’ll be spending to join. He even went as far as pointing at his watch and saying how much was saved when his children bought it for him as a Father’s Day gift.
Throughout the entire pitch, he continued to emphasize how he would be assisting me in becoming successful within the business since it’s in his best interest due to profits he would be earning through a percentage of my sales.
Shortly before leaving, it is revealed that the company name is Quixtar. I know I’ve heard of this before, but I couldn’t think of where. Finally, I remember there was a thread on the 2+2 Money Making & Business forums about how someone else got a similar pitch as well as numerous responses to it, including those who previously attempted to do what Quixtar does or knows others who tried. For those who aren’t aware, Quixtar is basically the Internet arm of Amway. I also was intrigued to find that eBusinessWaves — the website of one of the posters in the forum who received a similar sales pitch — looked exactly like the website for Kavanagh Associates.
After reading through the responses, there is definitely a general consensus among the posters.
- If you work hard and are a good at sales you can have success. However, it requires much more time to reach this level than is explained through the sales pitch.
- The product to sell is fairly standard and can be purchased anywhere.
- In order to reach the large monetary dream-like levels of profitability, you need to recruit others that you are then obligated to spend even more time training.
- The average gross income for “active” Quixtar IBO’s in 2005 was $115/month. (Since there are a few at the top making significantly more than this, the mean is obviously lower.)
- In order to simply reach the 50th percentile of all active distributors — whereby you would be grossing less than $100/month and expending costs significantly higher than $100/month — your net will be negative.
- If you manage to perform better than 99.83% of all Quixtar IBOs (including those with already substantial long term businesses), you will have reached the platinum level, and your reward will be an average gross income of roughly $47,000/year before factoring in substantial costs and time in training, developing and educating your down-line.
I am supposed to be meeting with the three Kavanagh’s again in the near future, but I don’t foresee myself joining the Quixtar team.
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March 15th, 2007 at 7:53 pm
[...] post by Matt Huggins and a wordpress plugin by Elliott [...]
March 17th, 2007 at 11:52 am
Good post. I know several people who got caught up in Quixtar and I strongly suggest not getting involved in it. I wouldn’t even bother meeting with them again, but that’s just me.
I’ve had several people attempt to pitch it to me, but I can always recognize a Quixtar pitch pretty much as soon as it starts. Personally, I never liked the tactics they use. Too vague and sneaky for my liking.
Nice blog by the way.
Shine on,
Aaron
March 17th, 2007 at 12:14 pm
Thanks for the comments, Aaron. This was my first experience at someone trying to sell me into Quixtar. However, I did have a girlfriend who got into ACN (despite attempts by me and our friends to stop her from joining). She in turn tried to get me to join. I finally agreed to go to an ACN meeting just to appease her, but I knew before getting there that I wouldn’t be joining. I have to admit though, the way they pitch it could definitely lead many to impulsively join. I wasn’t quite ready to spend $500 for a career in MLM though, as I can think of countless better ways to spend it.
March 17th, 2007 at 6:43 pm
Great article, I wouls steer Clear of them all, if it sounds to good to be true it is. Here in Ireland many people fell into the trap and lost lots of money, friends and respect as a result.
There is something very positive about having a nine to five job, honest.
Great site really well done, I too am new to this game and if you look at my site you will see how bad I am at all things IT.
Keep it up and well done again.
March 18th, 2007 at 9:50 am
Thanks for your input, Help. Also, your site doesn’t show that you are bad at all things IT; it looks good to me!
April 29th, 2007 at 4:42 pm
Hi Matt,
Nice to see a reasonably balanced description of your “experience”. All sounds reasonable to me except meeting in McDonalds - a bit unprofessional! James is still learning
One thing I’d like to comment on is the “average” incomes. Those averages are required to be presented by the FTC, and they’re actually quite misleading. Why? Because they include people who aren’t actually *trying* to earn an income. If you buy enough for yourself in a month to get a rebate (not hard to do if you’re into nutrition) you’re rebate gets included in the “average”. If just once in a whole year you ask your brother if he wants to buy some XS energy drink - just ask mind you, he doesn’t have to say yes - then you’re considered “active” and included in the averages. And so on and so on.
So you are correct, most people *are* earning less than that - but that’s the secret of network marketing - nobody actually does it! I work with a group that keeps statistics on these types of things, and at a recent seminar, attended by less than 15% of people registered, only 5% of people there (so less than 1% of the total) where doing the minimum amount of work required to build a profitable business. Not surprisingly, the percentage of people who make significant money is about the same 1%.
But what do they earn? Average “platinum” business (doing about $25,000/mth in sales volume) profits around $47,000 yr. Not bad for part-time work. The average “diamond” business, which is now into the “passive” type income is around $147,000/yr. You do the maths on how much you’d need invested to make that kind of passive income. There are many people with 6 and 7 figure incomes.
So it does work - if you work. But it takes time and effort. Still, do that “passive income” math exercises, and you’ll see why people who’ve done it say it’s worthwhile
cheers
/i
Get the Facts - The Truth About Amway and Quixtar
May 5th, 2007 at 9:45 pm
How many years does it take for a diamond or a platinum to reach those average levels? Do they have any friends left that aren’t ‘Quixtites’? And what is the average of the debt they are paying off from buying tools?
May 9th, 2007 at 1:35 pm
[...] Matt Higgins: About two to three weeks ago, I was browsing through the marketing books at Borders. While I was doing so, a guy who looked to be about the same age as me asked what I was looking at. Thinking it was his friendly way of saying hello, I gave a fairly simple response. He was genuinely intrigued, and continued the conversation with me about what I do for a living and small-talk related to the books I was looking at. [...]
July 16th, 2007 at 7:23 pm
The average IBO does not earn $115 a month. When you see the plan - the majority of IBOs are at 100 PV, which means they make about $8 a month.
If you toss out the top earners and the IBOs who “do nothing”, you will probably find that most of the remaining IBOs earn about $8 a month.
Beware, many quixtar recruiters like to show you what’s “possible”. They avoid showing you what’s “likely”. It would be like showing mansions and fancy cars in promoting the lottery. Sure, it’s “possible” to win if you have a ticket. but for the vast majority of participants, it’s not “likely” that they will win.
July 16th, 2007 at 8:06 pm
Hi Joe — Thanks for sharing. Regardless of whose numbers are more accurate, I think we can both agree that neither of these amounts are enough for surviving, especially considering the amount of effort and hours required. As such, I think the information still well demonstrates my reasoning for not wanting to partake in the Quixtar program. Thanks again for sharing!
July 22nd, 2007 at 12:07 pm
Hi Matt.
I was in Amway for about 2 years. I know people in Quixtar now and have recently examined the practices of at least the people in this line of sponsorship. Different year - same game. No info upfront, still using the “curiosity approach” from the old days. The curiosity approach gives them a bad name for not being upfront about it. If you research Amway/Quixtar and brainwashing online you will find some interesting info - many psychological tricks used. They expect to train you to do the same thing - it’s called duplication. The tricks get more and more interesting the further upline you progress.
Did they buy you something at McDonalds? I wouldn’t be surprised - it is an oft used psychological sales manipulation trick of obligating you. Don’t feel obligated to anyone that has their hand in your pocket.
If you would like an education in psychological manipulation go ahead and join, or string them along as far as you can. But don’t join thinking you will make money with this madness. Most people at first have an aversion to playing underhanded tricks on people to make money off of them. It’s immoral and this sick mindset can change you for the worse. But be careful, it is very important who you choose to hang out with. (That is also one of the lines they use, as if you aren’t hanging with them then you are some befuddled idiot with no future) The truth is, spending time with con men can change you into a con man.
That being said, if they would not persist in training people to do this it would not be that bad a company to work with. They always had products that people would buy because they liked them. However, don’t get involved thinking you are going to be rich.
If you want to look into MLM as a vehicle there are a few companies out there that are upfront about things and easy to work with - Shaklee and Melaleuca come to mind. But still, you should buy the products for a few months at least to see if you like them before ever deciding to pursue a distributorship with any company. You see, if you decide that you like some of the products that the company puts out WITHOUT acting as a rep, then you will realize that there is a real market for the products, not just for those who buy it because they are in a business opportunity and are expected and pressured to buy.
Don’t fall for an URGENCY psycho tricks either. The opportunity will always be there for a good company.
Good luck in whatever you do.
August 10th, 2007 at 3:41 pm
Major quixtar diamonds terminated - sue quixtar and reveal what critics have been contending for a long time. A must read!
http://team_orrin_woodward.typepad.com/orrin_woodward/files/Complaint.pdf
September 28th, 2007 at 10:45 pm
Matt,
As someone who’s been around the networking industry since 1991 (not financially free yet, but that’s not the industry’s fault), I would encourage you to take your time and do your due diligence — just like you would with any business decision. I would concur with Rob Cox’s last paragraph but dispute much of his earlier post about “brainwashing” techniques.
If you’ve read anything by Robert Kiyosaki or Paul Zane Pilzer you will recognize that, first, they are brilliant businessmen who are not easily swayed by fast-talking hucksters. Second, since they are financially successful they aren’t desperate to gain the addoration or addulation from any and all groups just to sell their books or fill their conferences. They are independent enough to be objective in their assessments of business opportunities. Read what they say about this industry — not as a job but as a viable, bona fide, legal home-based business with the potential to have a world-wide reach.
I can appreciate the other posters who decry the “curiosity” approach you experienced. There is a reason for using it, but it is cumbersome and not inspiring of confidence to the recipient. My preference is to be confident enough with the company I represent to be able to state their name up front and share the technological or business advantages (tax-wise, financials, time leveraging, etc) with the person who shows interest in my opportunity.
A publicly traded company must comply with the SEC, so there is oversight from a regulatory perspective (the SEC doesn’t allow pyramid schemes!). Also, it must allow for any inspection of commissions paid to the independent business owners by anyone interested in those reports. The company should be older than 7 years so the FTC has time to investigate whether what they are selling/providing/marketing is bona fide and their marketing plan passes muster.
Personally, I have chosen a company that has proprietary technology in several areas of the health and wellness arena. Everything is performance guaranteed, so you get your money back if you don’t improve, and we can measure whether you improve or not — not just rely on anecdotal evidence or testimonials and hype. I also have access to the largest industry in the world — travel — that doesn’t need much explanation.
My final point is this, and with all due respect to the poster from Ireland, if you are looking for a job (which means “just over broke”), then get a job. If you are looking for an unlimited future - personally, leadership-wise, financially - then do your due diligence, read what others who have been successful do or are doing and decide what vehicle to drive. You have more potential for success than what you may currently realize. Personal growth will help unleash that potential.
Good luck in your search for your best opportunity.
Dan
PS — Have you known anyone who started college but didn’t finish? If you’re going to college then talk to those who have successfully finished the task so you know what it takes.